Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

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Re: Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

Postby pirlouy » Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:12 pm

What's wrong if your parents see ads ?

Bah, nevermind, you clearly don't have understood Wladimir's point. A least, try to keep your useless extension updated for security reason...

BTW, I've noticed a lot of users trust Reddit as hell. Unbelievable. That's not the first time Reddit is responsible to useless discussion, but hey, geeks are happy...
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Re: Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

Postby tommorris » Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:20 pm

pirlouy wrote:What's wrong if your parents see ads ?


They've installed a plugin called AdBlock Plus on the basis that it will presumably block ads. When it fails to do so, guess who it will be who gets the call asking why "the computer is doing something wrong".

Bah, nevermind, you clearly don't have understood Wladimir's point. A least, try to keep your useless extension updated for security reason...


I understand Wladimir's post. I don't agree with it. That is exactly what the ABP developers fail to see: we understand why you've done it. We don't agree with it.
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Re: Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

Postby pirlouy » Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:33 pm

Adblock is not AllAdsblock...

If you really understood AB+ aim, you would not think AB+ is there to block all ads.
And if your parents call you because they see an ad, then just answer them that's not a crime, they see ads everywhere in the street without calling 911.

Plus the fact you called it Ablock++ shows how you're less trustable than Wladimir. Your extension does not do better things than AB+, it just removes an option, it's rather Adblock-... Bah, if it can make Reddit users happy, at least we won't see them here. Of course, they will continue spread false things, but they are not known to be well-informed...
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Re: Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

Postby tommorris » Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:39 pm

pirlouy wrote:And if your parents call you because they see an ad, then just answer them that's not a crime, they see ads everywhere in the street without calling 911.


Glad to see you aren't misrepresenting people who disagree with you.

Plus the fact you called it Ablock++ shows how you're less trustable than Wladimir. Your extension does not do better things than AB+, it just removes an option, it's rather Adblock-...


I called it that because it's a joke. It removes an option I don't need and I don't want. If you'd rather have Adblock Plus block some but not all adverts and have to remember to untick the box on every computer you install it on, you can use the main branch.

I don't particularly care whether you think I'm trustable. It's open source, it's a branch. It's really no big deal.

Bah, if it can make Reddit users happy, at least we won't see them here. Of course, they will continue spread false things, but they are not known to be well-informed...


Yes, everyone who disagrees with "acceptable ads" is ignorant rather than genuinely pissed about a feature they profoundly disagree with.
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Re: Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

Postby BIGstan » Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:19 am

Please allow me to begin by saying that I have been using Adblock Plus for years. Before that I edited my hosts file extensively. I have installed Adblock for a large number of people I know, not one of whom was not amazed at the change in the Internet once the content was the focus of the page, not the ads. A common question I received was related to the pages that had ads in the middle of the article - what was the phrase "after the jump" referring to...

That being said, I was disturbed by the "non-intrusive" option. The Adblock name in itself was not a description of what it was anymore - it had become what it could potentially do. I followed the links in the page and read up on it, and begrudgingly admitted to myself that another program that I loved had gone the way of the revenue stream. I was okay with this, though. While I strongly disagree with the tactic of making this opt-in by default, I was able to make the necessary changes to opt myself out.

Then another update occurred. I closed out of the notification and carried on - then though twice and checked my Adblock settings. Sure enough - the "non-intrusive" ads were switched back on again.

If, as you say, so many people are desiring the "non-intrusive" adverts as you claim they are... and I fully realize that this was a survey made by Adblock, worded by Adblock, to determine the feasibility of such a program...

Then I propose these changes:
1: Have two entries into addons.mozilla.com
a: One entry clearly-worded that it allows only "non-intrusive" adverts. Keep the wording and the "criteria" that you have made for this as close to your original design as possible, and don't turn it into a banner ad swap. Don't call it Adblock - it doesn't block adverts. call it AdGate or AdSentry or something that would imply limited entry.
b: One entry clearly-worded as AdBlock Plus (Classic?) that would block adverts as before. If you really have to allow for "non-intrusive" adverts, then give the option - but DO NOT make it opted-in by default, and DO NOT turn it on with ANY further program update.

2: Persistent options - Turning *on* the option that was *MANUALLY SELECTED to be off* every single time the program is updated is really underhanded.

Looking at what you say people want vs. the recent dips and valleys of your usage stats... I think the people have spoken.
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Re: Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

Postby AnonMe » Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:55 am

This topic should not be an issue in the first place, this new BS "feature" should have never come to be.

No matter how they want to spin it, anyone with any intelligence and common sense, knows this new "feature" is bull$h!t for the majority of users.

It's CLEARLY OBVIOUS the $$$ is THE motivation here, why spin and treat the users like fools, it only makes it worse.

The shaming into submission approach (i.e "you ungrateful idiots", "after using AB+ so long for free", blah blah blah) read my type, is NOT going to work.

Using the same logic the shamers/spinners are using, it should be fine to give a child a FREE toy then switch the toy for one with LEAD later, hey it's FREE right? oh wait, that's not acceptable? well guess what, neither is this new BS "feature".

I am not and will not be personally affected by wether AB+ keeps the new BS "feature" or not, I'm no longer using your original plugin, so this is NOT a begging/pleading post, I have other means by which to achieve the same purpose and also know how to code/fix the BS "feature(s)" away if I want to, which I already have.

The developer should re-think this new BS "feature" approach, it WILL greatly affect AB+, even if the new BS "feature" is scraped, it might already be too late. Hence, many won't trust AB+ the same, if at all. I for one don't/won't.


\Cue in shamer/spinner attack sequences to follow this post ...
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Re: Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

Postby pirlouy » Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:55 am

It is not intended to reinitialize the setting, so either it was a bug, either you miss something involuntarily.
So no, don't need 2 AB+.
Instead of having plenty of versions, you just have/need one, and use the setting it suits you the best. AB+ is still the same as it was the first day and as it is written on the home page for a long time: "Fully customizable — you are in control".
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Re: Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

Postby pirlouy » Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:01 am

AnonMe wrote:\Cue in shamer/spinner attack sequences to follow this post ...

Glad you see your post was just a troll.
I consider this setting a chance. If a popular adblocker is ready to promote companies which respect users, it is a good step for the Internet, webmasters and business. Of course, there will always be guys who prefer wars and no discussion...
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Re: Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

Postby Guest » Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:20 am

pirlouy wrote:
AnonMe wrote:\Cue in shamer/spinner attack sequences to follow this post ...

Glad you see your post was just a troll.
I consider this setting a chance. If a popular adblocker is ready to promote companies which respect users, it is a good step for the Internet, webmasters and business. Of course, there will always be guys who prefer wars and no discussion...


@pirlouy

Yaaaaaawn ...

As expected, the shame/spin/troll police at work.

Blah, blah, blah, really? well good for you, I and MANY others don't share your opinion and I/We don't have to. So YOU learn to respect and accept THAT, it's a TWO WAY street.

Your version of "discussion" is the do as I/We say because I/We know better approach.

You call it a troll, I call it expected reaction/behaviour, as a metter of fact, I was pretty sure it would be YOU representing the shame/spin/troll police ;)


\Cue in shamer/spinner/troll police attack sequences to follow this post ...
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Re: Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

Postby lewisje » Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:36 am

For the person who asked whether a privacy-related subscription would lead to "acceptable ads" being unchecked by default: It does indeed, as I personally verified on a user's installation where I had previously subscribed to the EasyList+EasyPrivacy combo, which I also recommend for those ABP for Mobile users, who can only subscribe to a single filter-list.
TomTrottier wrote:After reading a few of the pages, I realise that "unobtrusive" ads are determined by site rather than by method. GIven the millions of sites out there, I suggest this would become a LOT of work to both set up and monitor.

That's why I suggest prescribing Methods which any site can use should they want to escape the censorship that AdBlockPlus users want.

In fact, you could let users decide on various methods via checkboxes, eg:
☑ forbid bright colours
☑ forbid ads except in right column
☑ forbid over-bright images
☑ forbid ad images
☑ forbid any scripts
☑ forbid ...
depending on what methods you can easily recognize - and prescribe to advertisers. (yeah, harder than site filtering...)
That's *much* harder to implement than what ABP allows now: At the moment, there's no way for the extension to analyze the colors of a requested image before deciding whether to block (first, but not least, because it would paradoxically need to actually make that HTTP request for the image before it could analyze it and then decide whether to block the request, and also because it would take a massive performance hit...or it would require Palant to set up a special proxy server specifically for downloading and analyzing those images before the client ever sees them...it's mind-boggling), and calculating and estimating whether an ad is in the "right column" will lead to a serious performance hit.

However, it's much easier to block all images or scripts from a site: For the former, use the $image option; for the latter, use the $script option.
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Re: Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

Postby NoMoreAdsNow » Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:50 am

How is advertsing anything but manipulative? The sole purpose is to make money. People are treated as consumers, not human beings. Advertising is a symptom of greed that is out of control. If they're not trying to empty your wallet they're trying to control your mind.

Anyone who finds such things acceptable obviously believes they have something to gain from the practices. In other words, they want your money/mind so they stand behind lame and illogical arguments about 'acceptable ads' and 'helping the net'.

Advertising is a plague and though it's a losing battle it behooves all of us to fight back.

No advertising is acceptable. Period.
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Re: Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

Postby Swadeep » Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:39 am

That's a Very good move to distinguish b/n -ve and +ve
acceptable ads are good for free web
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Re: Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

Postby Silico » Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:41 am

lewisje wrote:[Allowing users to explicitly select what sort of ads they want is] *much* harder to implement than what ABP allows now: At the moment, there's no way for the extension to analyze the colors of a requested image before deciding whether to block (first, but not least, because it would paradoxically need to actually make that HTTP request for the image before it could analyze it and then decide whether to block the request, and also because it would take a massive performance hit...or it would require Palant to set up a special proxy server specifically for downloading and analyzing those images before the client ever sees them...it's mind-boggling), and calculating and estimating whether an ad is in the "right column" will lead to a serious performance hit.


A suggestion I made for a workable way to allow users to select the sort of ads they want, would be to allow sites and ad networks to submit to a filter list that provides ad-classification codes for each URL match.

I think such self-assessment would work if organisations who mis-represent their ads get all their ads black-listed for a time.
Last edited by Silico on Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

Postby Silico » Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:19 am

NoMoreAdsNow wrote:How is advertsing anything but manipulative? The sole purpose is to make money. People are treated as consumers, not human beings. Advertising is a symptom of greed that is out of control. If they're not trying to empty your wallet they're trying to control your mind.

Anyone who finds such things acceptable obviously believes they have something to gain from the practices. In other words, they want your money/mind so they stand behind lame and illogical arguments about 'acceptable ads' and 'helping the net'.

Advertising is a plague and though it's a losing battle it behooves all of us to fight back.

No advertising is acceptable. Period.


In an ideal world we'd be directly paying websites, TV channels, newspapers, magazines, showrooms, and consultants to advise us what we should buy, and on what's being offered for sale. But people mostly don't want to pay the whole cost of running those, so we're stuck with some sort of advertising. "Build it and they will come" doesn't work, though the spread of information through online social networks has made it work better than it ever did.

So I think the aim should be to instead try to tilt advertising away from those forms that intrude and spin the most, towards forms that people can consume at a time of their choosing, as well as making it possible for ads to be annotated with independent assessments.
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Re: Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

Postby gabranth » Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:50 am

[quote="EnviroChem"]
1) The linked article has nothing to do with Google ads, it is about bad websites in Google's search result.
/quote]


it is about ads google doodle = ad with google's personal copyrighted name for it in this case it was advertising martha graham that when clicked on sent people to malware sites the report isn't about malware in google results that everywhere its about google's ad sending people to links containing malware
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