Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

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Re: Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

Postby justaguest » Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:27 am

Lets see i got now 4 Pepole who called me and asked why they see ad's now and there is no Option to put it off, they reinstalled, restarted and anything else. Just dont find/see this "Rule" - All 4 Asked for another Blocker till i Explain them how put them Off Again :roll: You make Something Worng i wold say
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Re: Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

Postby EnviroChem » Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:26 am

First an observation about comments here whether in support of or in opposition to the new opt-out non-intrusive ad filter. Comments have a lot more credibility when you take the time to create an account. Just saying.

Since I don't use ABP normally, out of curiosity I enabled AdBlock (v1.3 something) on one of my profiles and surfed around for a little bit to see how some sites looked with ads being blocked. I then upgraded to ABP 2.0 and surfed around again. Here are my observations:

1) Since the "allow non-intrusive advertising option is new, existing users should be presented with a very distinct note about this option on the ABP just updated page that makes it very easy to set this setting to how the user wants. I do have to agree with the detractors of this new setting that it isn't very clear right away that a choice needs to be made about this new setting.

I'd suggest something like this:
NOTICE: ABP Now has an option to allow non-intrusive ads
ABP now has an option to allow non-intrusive ads. To learn more about the non-intrusive ad option please read this.
To enable/disable the non-intrusive ad filter please go here and check/uncheck the option "allow non-intrusive advertising".

Assuming you can't put the option setting directly in the note on the update page, the note needs to have a link that causes the filter preference panel to open. In general, I'd recommend making the new ABP has updated page be better styled such that it attracts the user's attention to the key things they need to know about the latest version of ABP.

2) I surfed around a number of different sites with the non-intrusive ad filter enabled and still didn't see any ads so, I'm not sure that people complaining about this new option are really seeing ads, or are just complaining because the option exists. If someone could post some example websites where the filter is allowing ads to get through, I'd appreciate being able to see the new setting in action.

3) It should be easier to see what entries are in the non-intrusive ad filter.

I've already come out in favor of the new option in theory, I just think it could be implemented a little better so that it doesn't seem like it is getting snuck in on users. I do have a vested interest in users seeing ads since I run a website supported by advertising, however, those who strongly oppose ads to have some valid concerns with the way the new option was implemented and some refinements to it would be a good thing.
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Re: Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

Postby anonymous74100 » Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:03 am

EnviroChem wrote:If someone could post some example websites where the filter is allowing ads to get through, I'd appreciate being able to see the new setting in action.
https://easylist-downloads.adblockplus.org/exceptionrules.txt wrote:Text-based search ads on suche.netzwelt.de
Static image ads on t3n.de
Text ads on Sedo parking domains


EnviroChem wrote:I just think it could be implemented a little better so that it doesn't seem like it is getting snuck in on users. (..), however, those who strongly oppose ads to have some valid concerns with the way the new option was implemented and some refinements to it would be a good thing.
Wladimir is not interested in changing the implementation. Read: https://adblockplus.org/en/acceptable-ads and https://adblockplus.org/blog/random-tho ... ommunities
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Re: Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

Postby pirlouy » Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:23 pm

Sure I will be accused of being a faggot, but I'm one of those who thinks you took the right decision/direction. :)
But I'm afraid you will be spammed by ads companies asking for being in whitelist.

I can't stand those geeks complaining for something they used for years without offering 1$... Especially when it is easy to have the same settings that before...
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Re: Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

Postby DaemonFC » Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:01 pm

I've settled on Chrome Adblock with Fanboy's lists.

He seems to be skeptical of this pay to play disguised as some pie in the sky attempt to make ad and spyware companies behave and Chrome Adblock is not under the control of Wladimir Palant.

Why is a parking page parasite in the whitelist? (Sedo) and What do they do that's so worthy of being supported? ;)
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Re: Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

Postby EnviroChem » Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:35 pm

anonymous74100 wrote:
EnviroChem wrote:If someone could post some example websites where the filter is allowing ads to get through, I'd appreciate being able to see the new setting in action.
https://easylist-downloads.adblockplus.org/exceptionrules.txt wrote:Text-based search ads on suche.netzwelt.de
Static image ads on t3n.de
Text ads on Sedo parking domains


Thanks, I couldn't find any ads on the first domain and I did surf around. Then again it was in German so maybe I was missing something. On http://t3n.de/tag/iphone I did see a static ad come through. The one thing that I might consider annoying about the ad was that it was loaded into the page late causing a page redraw. Still, if websites could be convinced to stop using page overlays and other really obnoxious ads, it would be so much nicer for all users. Will the new option help convince websites to change practices? I just don't know. I don't think I would change my practices just to get white listed. I'm pretty minimalist with the way I use ads, but I think I'd still lose money if I disabled rich media ads just to be white listed in ABP.

In regards to Sedo and other domain parking, I agree those types of ads shouldn't be white listed. Not because the ads are more intrusive than other text ads, but because most of the time the domain parking is being done by someone trying to take advantage of residual traffic from an abandoned domain or a domain squatter preying on misspellings. In either case the ads can simply be confusing and deceptive to users as they pretend to be real content.


anonymous74100 wrote:
EnviroChem wrote:I just think it could be implemented a little better so that it doesn't seem like it is getting snuck in on users. (..), however, those who strongly oppose ads to have some valid concerns with the way the new option was implemented and some refinements to it would be a good thing.
Wladimir is not interested in changing the implementation. Read: https://adblockplus.org/en/acceptable-ads and https://adblockplus.org/blog/random-tho ... ommunities

When constructive feedback is used as opposed to absolutest vitriolic demands, most people are willing to adopt some changes. Wladimir has a vision as to what he wants to accomplish. What is needed is constructive feedback that would help achieve his objective while addressing the core concerns of those who have come out against the new option. I think the core concern is that the new option changes previous behavior without proper warning and is too buried to be effectively understood.

My understanding about AMO addon policies is that forcing the filter options panel to open immediately upon Firefox restarting after ABP is updated is not allowed if it prevents users from using Firefox unless they respond to the panel. This kind of limits how users can be presented the choice to enable/disable the new option, but users really do need to make an active decision about this option from the start. The ABP update page might be the best available way for explaining the new option. It shouldn't take much work to reformat/rewrite the ABP has updated page to better explain the new option in a way that draws users attention to the changes and to make sure they can quickly and easily change the setting one way or another.

If people provide suggestions how to rewrite the ABP has updated page to clearly explain the new option and provide users with a quick way to change this setting. Maybe, just maybe Wladimir will adopt one of the suggestions. I doubt he will change the setting to opt-in, but still the biggest concern about this setting being snuck in under the radar could be addressed by an effective rewrite of the ABP has updated page.
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Re: Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

Postby JohnG » Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:59 pm

Guest wrote:Hallo those in fond of the new "feature" and those who are against it,

first thing I want to mention: I didn't take that much time to read all comments written up until now on those 16 pages though I did read some of them.
So if I am annoying to someone because of continual repetition I am sorry for that.

Those who criticized the new "feature", so it seemed to me, argued on the basis that most people who use Adblock Plus do not want to see any ads at all while those in favor of that feature saying that the opposite is true (saying that at least a majority prefer to allow some ads to be shown). I believe that arguing on this basis will get us just nowhere since neither of those arguments can be proven.

However, the initial reason given for this new feature seems to be its necessity of ads in order to keep smaller websites "alive". And that is in my opinion a false assumption!

I rather think that the opposite is true that is that relatively big websites do need some extra money in order to pay their "larger" servers and their greater traffic while smaller websites do not neccessarily need monetary supply by putting ads on their websites since their websites are small, and their traffic not too great, and therefore their expenses not too great to be borne by a single person or a small community. I honestly doubt that any person making his or her website publicly avaiable on the internet is seriously relying on some small ads to make up their expenses.

On the other hand those who have to come up for the expenses their larger websites create will probably not be in need of any ads, too! I would argue that anyone would start with a huge website project which causes great expenses without making sure that his or her project will be popular at all. In other words, I do assume that larger websites do have a larger user-base staying behind them. And as most of us are able to see weekly or daily that larger websites do not need ads to survive (at sites such as wikipedia with its great expenses as anyone who is interested can look up) there seems to be no sensible reason to me why some ads should be allowed per default by AdblockPlus.

Furthermore I would argue that allowing selected ads will not help those small websites but help those who are more popular and therefore (as mentioned above) probably bigger for they get more visitors each day than those smaller websites and consequently more money each day. I therefore suggest to put the new feature off at default or remove it completely and leave that decision of what ads he or she wants to see to the user just like before AdblockPlus 2.0.


I think the problem is really the medium websites. I have a website, i get about 15000 unique visits a day, it allows people to make their own websites, and it's free. Basically it works like this, when creating your own website with my tool, you can optionally select to display ads on your created website, to support our service.

This option is disabled by default, but you do get a checkbox when making your site on whether or not you want to display ads to support the service. About a third of users manually enable this.

Our VPS costs about 50 dollars a month, and the ads cover about 20% of that. Even if we enabled ads globally, that'd cover only up to 60% (but probably less since many of the created sites share the same visitors). I don't know if you're a website owner but I, as one, who makes losses every month can tell you that it's not that easy, especially if you want to offer a good service.

I think checking a checkbox if you don't want to see any ads at all is more than reasonable and I think this implementation is a great feature.
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Re: Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

Postby Anon » Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:19 pm

We shouldn't have to beg and plead for him to do what's obviously in the best interests of users. He knows that this option should have been opt-in, and he knows that what constitutes "acceptable ads" should be 100% transparent and community involved. He simply made a conscious decision to pander to advertising companies at the cost of his trust and good will. Not being honest about that just makes the problem worse.
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Re: Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

Postby pirlouy » Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:24 pm

No.
Just tick the case and quit whining.
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Re: Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

Postby BillR » Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:43 pm

You can't Block ALL ads even by clicking the Non intrusive box... I just had a HUGE iPHONE ad appear at the top of Firefox.
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Re: Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

Postby pirlouy » Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:07 pm

Crosspost (+troll)
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Re: Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

Postby Guest » Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:45 pm

JohnG wrote:
Guest wrote:Hallo those in fond of the new "feature" and those who are against it,

first thing I want to mention: I didn't take that much time to read all comments written up until now on those 16 pages though I did read some of them.
So if I am annoying to someone because of continual repetition I am sorry for that.

Those who criticized the new "feature", so it seemed to me, argued on the basis that most people who use Adblock Plus do not want to see any ads at all while those in favor of that feature saying that the opposite is true (saying that at least a majority prefer to allow some ads to be shown). I believe that arguing on this basis will get us just nowhere since neither of those arguments can be proven.

However, the initial reason given for this new feature seems to be its necessity of ads in order to keep smaller websites "alive". And that is in my opinion a false assumption!

I rather think that the opposite is true that is that relatively big websites do need some extra money in order to pay their "larger" servers and their greater traffic while smaller websites do not neccessarily need monetary supply by putting ads on their websites since their websites are small, and their traffic not too great, and therefore their expenses not too great to be borne by a single person or a small community. I honestly doubt that any person making his or her website publicly avaiable on the internet is seriously relying on some small ads to make up their expenses.

On the other hand those who have to come up for the expenses their larger websites create will probably not be in need of any ads, too! I would argue that anyone would start with a huge website project which causes great expenses without making sure that his or her project will be popular at all. In other words, I do assume that larger websites do have a larger user-base staying behind them. And as most of us are able to see weekly or daily that larger websites do not need ads to survive (at sites such as wikipedia with its great expenses as anyone who is interested can look up) there seems to be no sensible reason to me why some ads should be allowed per default by AdblockPlus.

Furthermore I would argue that allowing selected ads will not help those small websites but help those who are more popular and therefore (as mentioned above) probably bigger for they get more visitors each day than those smaller websites and consequently more money each day. I therefore suggest to put the new feature off at default or remove it completely and leave that decision of what ads he or she wants to see to the user just like before AdblockPlus 2.0.


I think the problem is really the medium websites. I have a website, i get about 15000 unique visits a day, it allows people to make their own websites, and it's free. Basically it works like this, when creating your own website with my tool, you can optionally select to display ads on your created website, to support our service.

This option is disabled by default, but you do get a checkbox when making your site on whether or not you want to display ads to support the service. About a third of users manually enable this.

Our VPS costs about 50 dollars a month, and the ads cover about 20% of that. Even if we enabled ads globally, that'd cover only up to 60% (but probably less since many of the created sites share the same visitors). I don't know if you're a website owner but I, as one, who makes losses every month can tell you that it's not that easy, especially if you want to offer a good service.

I think checking a checkbox if you don't want to see any ads at all is more than reasonable and I think this implementation is a great feature.



Hallo,

thank you for your reply! (<- honest gratitude, not ironic)
I admit that I am not a website owner as a result of which I can only speak about what I have experienced as a user. I wrote that ads are not necessary for small websites to sustain. I did not mention that they would not helpful at all. I therefore asked the developers of Adblock either to disable that feature by default or to remove it completely. I did not exclusively asked for its abolition for a reason. Since you do not enable those ads on "your" websites by default (just as I asked the developers to disable their feature by default) I do not think that our opinions are that different than it might seem at first glance. I am sorry to read that someone who is trying to offer good services without using forced ads is having some financial difficulties.
However, I still do not think that an adblocker should be supporting some ads by default. A user of an adblocker would not expect that this tool would allow some ads by default just as someone who installed an anti virus scanner would not expect that that scanner ignores some known trojans by default. That just seems to be absurd...
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Re: Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

Postby lewisje » Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:39 pm

The important difference between ad-blockers and malware-blockers is that while malware is universally harmful, ads are not; while malware serves no legitimate purpose, ads do have some, and as Adblock Plus increases in popularity, it's better to influence advertisers toward less-intrusive ads than shove their customers toward paywalls, the abyss of deactivation, and/or ever-louder lobbying for the final implementation of a long-planned system of micropayments.
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Re: Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

Postby pirlouy » Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:45 pm

@Guest: I think you misunderstand something: Adblock Plus does not block all ads in the world. In fact, it does block 0 ads by default. It's just that you can block some known sites thanks to a subscription.

Blocking all ads is not a good way, not very fair for websites owner/workers. And for those who put thjeir favorites sites in whitelist, that's just bullshits. If your favorite page is full of ads, you won't whitelist it. The best way is to promote ads companies which respect users. I'm glad Wladimir took this decision. Yes, there are not only stealers here, there are some people who try to respect webmasters a minimum.

The difficult part for Wladimir will be to deal with ads companies; they will offer him a lot of money, but if he convinced them to change mentality, I see no problems.
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Re: Allowing acceptable ads in Adblock Plus

Postby Anti-Ad » Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:13 pm

JohnG wrote:I think checking a checkbox if you don't want to see any ads at all is more than reasonable and I think this implementation is a great feature.

It is reasonable for a user who understands the option exists and knows enough about the rotten practices of the advertising industry to make an informed choice.

It is not reasonable for tech newbies or legacy installs of ABP on systems belonging to the computer illiterate.
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